This is just plain wrong.

[chaotic_nipple]

Forwarded from schrathe:

Iran to hang teenage girl attacked by rapists.

"Tehran, Iran, Jan. 07 – An Iranian court has sentenced a teenage rape victim to death by hanging after she weepingly confessed that she had unintentionally killed a man who had tried to rape both her and her niece.

The state-run daily Etemaad reported on Saturday that 18-year-old Nazanin confessed to stabbing one of three men who had attacked the pair along with their boyfriends while they were spending some time in a park west of the Iranian capital in March 2005.

Nazanin, who was 17 years old at the time of the incident, said that after the three men started to throw stones at them, the two girls’ boyfriends quickly escaped on their motorbikes leaving the pair helpless.

She described how the three men pushed her and her 16-year-old niece Somayeh onto the ground and tried to rape them, and said that she took out a knife from her pocket and stabbed one of the men in the hand.

As the girls tried to escape, the men once again attacked them, and at this point, Nazanin said, she stabbed one of the men in the chest. The teenage girl, however, broke down in tears in court as she explained that she had no intention of killing the man but was merely defending herself and her younger niece from rape, the report said.

The court, however, issued on Tuesday a sentence for Nazanin to be hanged to death."

Someone explain to me again how Western Culture is supposed to be so sexist and evil?

Clarification to snarky comment: No, I don't think that Western Culture is perfect. It has a wide variety of problems that will take lifetimes to fix. I maintain that we have come farther towards the goal of universal equality than any other contemporary (or most historical) society, and claiming that we're "just as bad", or worse, than the rest of the world, is counterproductive, and only serves to alienate or discourage people whao want to make our society better than it already is. Also, it encourages run-on sentences.

Note: It would be most appreciated if everyone were to make at least a token effort towards civil discussion, and _not_ immediately assume that disagreement and/or criticism is tantamount to a personal attack. Thank you.

Funny, both of the flame wars that have taken place on my blog were instigated by the same person. What are the odds?

Comments

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

that's interesting. You totally avoided dealing with what I actually said and went off into defensive tangents. It's very simple. I called you on your language; you backpedaled, and now you're bitching that you don't have to say things the way I want you to. That wasn't THE issue, though, was it?

I express myself very plainly. If I'd accused you of saying something other than you had, you'd have been insulted by that as well. I took you at your exact words. I guess you find that offensive.

Whatever. I didn't demand you say anything in any particular fashion; that's just paranoid. What I dod do was take you at your word. Sorry if you got nailed for it, but that's sloppy language useage and I hae nothing else to go on.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Perhaps when a country run by Christian priests sentences a girl to death for defending herself against a rapist in the 21st century, you might be within screaming distance of a point.

Until then, go fuck yourself.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

OMG, is the big stwong man going to defend his ladylove?

So nice to see you're still as much of a sexist asshole as you always were, pretenses notwithstanding. What, are you like nice to one woman and a complete and total asshole to everyone else who's uppity? Twu wove. Fuck off, Mr. Protests Too Much.

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

Fuck off yourself, Gin.

I don't control John and he's more than likely to let me defend myself than he is to jump in. Islam is something he's interested in, and the constant slamming of Western culture because we're just not fucking enlightened enough is annoying.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Sweetie, your boytoy reacts to sexism like you do to criticism of the west---you both see criticism as slamming. Good luck with that. I've been called various sexist things by your sweetie before, so my question still stands: Is he only nice to non-uppity women? Better not get uppity then.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

If only you knew the half of it. . .

One wonders whether you intend to act as a jester, or whether you are actually seriously trying to drive a wedge between us.

Or perhaps you're so enraged by the idea of a healthy relationship that it causes your normally shaky thought processes to degrade further?

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

"you both see criticism as slamming"

Pots... Kettles...

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

I'm about as uppity as they come, sweetie, and he deals with me just fine.

Forgive my ignorance...

[seferin.livejournal.com]

but aren't there parts out America where the government, due to Christian influence, wishes to prevent rape victims from taking contraception, so that not only are they raped, but they must also bear the child of this rapist?

Re: Forgive my ignorance...

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

There are parts of America where practically every practice is performed by some person or group of people. That's the nature of having 300 million people of every cultural extraction on the planet.

Iran, on the other hand, is almost entirely (99%+) of one religious persuasion, the Muslims having put to the sword nearly the entire Christian population and come within a hair's breath of eradicating the native Zoroastrian religion. They are (excepting the Kurdish population in the NE and a handful of frontier tribes near Afghanistan) of essentially one ethnic group.

The two cases are somewhat dissimillar.

I find it odd to compare denial of contraception (actually abortion-inducing drugs if you are speaking of after the fact of the rape) to the execution of the victim. The cases are not quite analogous in my mind. I've had people try to kill me, but never had to bear a rapist's child. So it is possible that I am overestimating the negative consequences of Death.

But not very possible.

Re: Forgive my ignorance...

[seferin.livejournal.com]

While it is true that there is a difference between being put to death, and being forced to bear the child of a rapist, I think the central issue (blaming the victim) is the same. In the former case, she is being blamed for fighting back. In the latter, she was unsuccessful in fighting back, and is not being permitted to prevent pregnancy. I consider that to a great a voilation as being murdered.

Re: Forgive my ignorance...

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

I don't consider anything as great a violation as being murdered. Like I said, I've had people try very vigorously, and returned the favor with a good deal more success.

However, the essence of your statement (blaming victim) is fundamentally correct.

It is also fair to say that such is a fringe view in the United States (and the rest of the civilized--for which read Western--world). Whereas in the Muslim world, it is the ONLY view permitted under Sharia law and tribal customs.

That is the main difference to my mind.

[jackytar.livejournal.com]

Bush comes perilously close to making that a fair description of the US.

Allow me to assist you in fucking yourself with my size 12 seaboots applied to your ass.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Ooooh! Look! Ginmar's flunkies are arriving! And the most original thing you have to offer is threatened physical violence! You're sooooo intimidating over the internet! That's the cool thing about the web. Any pencil-necked geek can be a raging badass because he knows he won't have to back it up!

Bring in on, smartass. Camp Beuhring, Kuwait. Tent 16-37, ask anyone, they know where I sleep.

[jackytar.livejournal.com]

Perhaps when a country run by Christian priests sentences a girl to death for defending herself against a rapist in the 21st century, you might be within screaming distance of a point.

Until then, go fuck yourself.

I notice you still haven't addressed my response to your words, quoted above. Or do you seriously believe that
(a) there isn't a distinctly radical fundy-Christian right leaning to current policies of the US government; and
(b) no woman has ever been accused, tried and convicted of murder for killing a would-be rapist in self-defense?

As for the 'bootfuck' comment, you opened the door for it when you invited Gin to fuck herself, Sunny Jim. And now you're all offended. Dear me, I feel a tear coming on at the prospect of your grubby little feelings being hurt.

Your move.

[jackytar.livejournal.com]

Okay, re-reading this, the 'bootfuck' comment was unecessary. I apologize for it. I stand by the rest of it though; the Bush administration has turned the US into the closest thing I've seen yet to a Christian theocracy in its foreign policies and implimentation of those policies.

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

Language! My Mommy reads this, only I'm allowed to cuss here!

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

that's interesting. You totally avoided dealing with what I actually said and went off into defensive tangents. It's very simple. I called you on your language; you backpedaled, and now you're bitching that you don't have to say things the way I want you to. That wasn't THE issue, though, was it?

No, the issue seemed to be that my attitudes are invalid because I didn't preface my comments with what you think is correct.

I express myself very plainly. If I'd accused you of saying something other than you had, you'd have been insulted by that as well. I took you at your exact words. I guess you find that offensive.

No, what I find offensive is that you seem to fixate on the fact that I didn't slam stupid Christians in the same sentence, so I must have been condoning the stupid whackjobs that make my religion look bad.

Whatever. I didn't demand you say anything in any particular fashion; that's just paranoid. What I dod do was take you at your word. Sorry if you got nailed for it, but that's sloppy language useage and I hae nothing else to go on.

This isn't my job. I don't sit here and edit everything for journalistic clarity. If I were writing this for work, then yeah, I'd probably make sure that I did.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

So you don't express yourself clearly but everyone's just supposed to trust you? Yeah, sure. You first.

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

Why is it that you complain so loudly when people are disruptive or rude in your own livejournal, but have no compunctions about engaging is the same behaviours in other people's spaces?

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

That's funny, because I don't have disruptive or rude poeple in my LJ. I have trolls. What's also funny is that I don't see you nailing either of your two buddies for the various ad homs they started tossing around. But I guess that doesn't bother you, does it?

[lavendertook.livejournal.com]

Totally agreed. If you really appreciate civil disagreement, then it's not Gin here you'd be throwing accusations at. You're being a lousy host to her.

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

Given that she's the one who started this flamefest, I would think that my obligations as host are different than they would be if _she_ were the one who someone else had picked a fight with.

[chaotic-nipple.livejournal.com]

You're saying you'd rather I called you a troll?

"What's also funny is that I don't see you nailing either of your two buddies for the various ad homs they started tossing around."

I've told them to play nice too.

"But I guess that doesn't bother you, does it?"

Given that it seems to me that you deliberately started this argument, with malice aforethought and abusive sarcasm for all, then no, it doesn't bother me as much.

[ginmar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, because of course I was the one who first used the phrase "fuck off" and various others, such as this: Ginmar is pathologically adverse to any measurable, tangible standard other than her imagined perfection. Might explain why she has such a difficult time dealing with Real Life.

Somewhere in there, too, accusations of mental illness got thrown. but not by me.